[RPG] Kelgar [with download]

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kddekadenz
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby kddekadenz » June 1st, 2012, 1:37 pm

Mike wrote:Sounds like he drew some of the inspiration for his dialogue from you Hirato :) hehe. And it isn't a WIP so you don't need to go too bonkers on the poor guy!! Great tips for you though KDD, and keep up the good work!!


I do not feel like like a poor guy.
He is really helpful :)
Kelgar is an advanced RPG beeing developed in Sandbox

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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby kddekadenz » June 1st, 2012, 2:31 pm

Hirato wrote:If you go into third person, you'll see the player's model is just empty.
While it's no longer "" it is now "rc" - but this model doesn't exist which means the side effects can still be undesirable.
You really have no excuse for not adding something like "r_char_mdl uh/chars/man/oldman01" into player.cfg to fix this issue


The critter models shall be replaced in the future, so I didn't care about it much. I never play it in thirdperson, I even telled multiple times that this is a first person RPG.
After adding a playermodel I had the problem that the eye-level was too high. Is there any way to set this? EDIT: This is setted by the bounding box!

Hirato wrote:The main thing I'm trying to highlight here is that this script IS INSIDE data/rpg/games/mygame/scripts/ when it isn't configuring a script slot at all - it is executing stuff which depends on having a very specific state of the world and reference table and this is very likely the source of freezes and other weirdness some of your players have reported!
I'm also trying to point out you're including the file wrong, you should be using include includes/loot not exec data/rpg/games/default/includes/loot.cfg - there's a huge difference here! the former will work no matter what you call your game!
But really, It's been 5 months, you have no excuse for not moving this script to say, includes/loot.cfg and replacing every invocation of "exec data/rpg/games/default/scripts/22.cfg" with "include includes/loot.cfg"


You're right, I do not have a excuse for that. I did not know that this could cause serious problems.
I fixed it.

Hirato wrote:The current lighting is fine... for overcast weather... but this is obviously not the case, so case some shadows, illuminate the place.
It's all about setting the ambiance properly.


Does not make a big difference actually..
Are there any plans on adding weather (rain, storm, sunshine) to Sandbox?


Hirato wrote:Is there a reason using the healing spell still sounds as though someone is hitting me over the head with a club?
This can in actual fact be applied to all "edible" items now too!


With 'now' you mean using the SVN?
I tried it multiple times, but I did not really get it how to do this..

Hirato wrote:
The ancestor quest also looks a bit buggy. There seem to be a lot of weirdly placed state changes.

I don't think you have an excuse for this one either.
I don't care if it's a work in progress, you could've at least consolidated code like the following so it didn't look nearly as silly as it is.

Code: Select all

r_script_say "No money, no reward." [ //8
   r_response "You are such an :censored:" -1
   r_global_set $ancestor_search 4
   r_response "One day, you :censored: will wake up with a dagger in your tummy." -1
   r_global_set $ancestor_search 4
   r_response "Farewell." -1"
   r_global_set $ancestor_search 3
]

Just look at it! You're changing the state of the quest 3 times while just generating the responses!


Code: Select all

r_script_say "No money, no reward." [ //8
   r_response "You are such an *BANME BANME BANME*." -1 [r_global_set $ancestor_search 4]
   
   r_response "One day, you bad word will wake up with a dagger in your tummy." -1 [r_global_set $ancestor_search 4]

   r_response "Farewell." -1 [r_global_set $ancestor_search 3]

]


Like this?

Thank you for spending your time in giving me constructive criticism.
Kelgar is an advanced RPG beeing developed in Sandbox

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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby chocolatepie33 » June 1st, 2012, 3:33 pm

kddekadenz wrote:Does not make a big difference actually..
Are there any plans on adding weather (rain, storm, sunshine) to Sandbox?


Done with particles. Sunshine can be made with glare and sunlight, to a degree, rain and storm are just varieties of water particles.

Mike wrote:Sounds like he drew some of the inspiration for his dialogue from you Hirato hehe. And it isn't a WIP so you don't need to go too bonkers on the poor guy!! Great tips for you though KDD, and keep up the good work!!


if this isn't a WIP, then this is a not too good finished product. I think Hirato's more mad about the abuse to his beloved RPG system then he is about anything else, as well. Kind of like a protective mothering instinct :)
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby Runescapedj » June 1st, 2012, 5:40 pm

You can always save the map under different names and only change the weather (so 1 with rain, 1 with sun, 1 with night, etc), but that might give problems with scripts and such, however itd be good to be able to change a few things in the main world (like blowing stuff up, building stuff, a passage full of rocks that gets cleared over time)

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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby chocolatepie33 » June 1st, 2012, 8:31 pm

To combine and clarify what Rune and I both said -

weather can be simulated via particles such as water and snow. However, currently particles cannot be triggered or linked to a trigger except when falling into lava. This means that your best bet for making weather occur would be to have two maps, each identical except for weather conditions and other such changes. You can go from map A, with clear weather and a dry lake, to map B, with rainy weather and a lake filling up, to lake C, with clear weather and a completely filled up lake, all changes made in the maps and the maps are changed via triggers.
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby Hirato » June 1st, 2012, 9:48 pm

kddekadenz wrote:
Hirato wrote:If you go into third person, you'll see the player's model is just empty.
While it's no longer "" it is now "rc" - but this model doesn't exist which means the side effects can still be undesirable.
You really have no excuse for not adding something like "r_char_mdl uh/chars/man/oldman01" into player.cfg to fix this issue


The critter models shall be replaced in the future, so I didn't care about it much. I never play it in thirdperson, I even telled multiple times that this is a first person RPG.
After adding a playermodel I had the problem that the eye-level was too high. Is there any way to set this? EDIT: This is setted by the bounding box!


As you've noted, the boundaries are defined by the model's bounding box, and this is precisely why you should at least give it a valid dummy.
There is the possibility for the eyeheight to be changed to 0 by changing the player model via some means and then back.
This means you're like a fast moving insect.. or a snake!

The eyeheight is by default 90% the height of the model, but it should be noted that the unihuman models are about twice the size of the robochimp ones, so you can easily scale them down by about 50%
That aside, the eyeheight can be explicitly set with mdlbb - I'm not too sure of the arguments right now.
But yeah, that model seems a bit messed up (/showboundingbox 1)

Hirato wrote:The current lighting is fine... for overcast weather... but this is obviously not the case, so case some shadows, illuminate the place.
It's all about setting the ambiance properly.


Does not make a big difference actually..
Are there any plans on adding weather (rain, storm, sunshine) to Sandbox?


We plan to integrate tesseract into our codebase for 3.0.0/2.9.0, which should make dynamic lighting and and shading a reality.
The actual "rain", "snow" or "lightning" and other misc things of whether are another matter which I've not yet decided to tackle.

@chocolatepie Changing the map based on the weather and time of day is a logistics nightmare - best to do this only when the world changes in a permanent way. and the "rocks" you mentioned can be simulated with obstacle entities.

As for lighting: Yours vs Mine - which is better and why, discuss!
kdekadenz' https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23891252/screenshot_68755.jpg
Mine https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23891252/screenshot_452054.jpg

If you want to stick with your lighting, the least you can do is to use fogdomes to make the sky foggy to justify it.

Hirato wrote:
The ancestor quest also looks a bit buggy. There seem to be a lot of weirdly placed state changes.

I don't think you have an excuse for this one either.
I don't care if it's a work in progress, you could've at least consolidated code like the following so it didn't look nearly as silly as it is.

Code: Select all

r_script_say "No money, no reward." [ //8
   r_response "You are such an :censored:" -1
   r_global_set $ancestor_search 4
   r_response "One day, you :censored: will wake up with a dagger in your tummy." -1
   r_global_set $ancestor_search 4
   r_response "Farewell." -1"
   r_global_set $ancestor_search 3
]

Just look at it! You're changing the state of the quest 3 times while just generating the responses!


Code: Select all

r_script_say "No money, no reward." [ //8
   r_response "You are such an *BANME BANME BANME*." -1 [r_global_set $ancestor_search 4]
   
   r_response "One day, you bad word will wake up with a dagger in your tummy." -1 [r_global_set $ancestor_search 4]

   r_response "Farewell." -1 [r_global_set $ancestor_search 3]

]


Like this?


If that's what it's meant to do, then yes.
And with that said, I'm rather surprised the language filter doesn't filter out bad word, ha!
Mike: fix it
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby kddekadenz » June 2nd, 2012, 10:37 am

Runescapedj wrote:You can always save the map under different names and only change the weather (so 1 with rain, 1 with sun, 1 with night, etc), but that might give problems with scripts and such, however itd be good to be able to change a few things in the main world (like blowing stuff up, building stuff, a passage full of rocks that gets cleared over time)


Your solution of adding weather is bad, because of the loading times and more important: Example: You kill a person in the sunny world, then it gets rainy and the person is alive again!

Building stuff would be very cool and I already tought about adding this, but currently there are other priorities (quests and landscape).

Another idea I had was summoning, but I do not know how to create the critter entity using a spell.

Hirato wrote:That aside, the eyeheight can be explicitly set with mdlbb - I'm not too sure of the arguments right now.


mdlbb <width> <height>

Hirato wrote:We plan to integrate tesseract into our codebase for 3.0.0/2.9.0, which should make dynamic lighting and and shading a reality.
The actual "rain", "snow" or "lightning" and other misc things of whether are another matter which I've not yet decided to tackle.


I already watched a video about Tesseract, the lightening was too bright, tough.
A 'stormy' weather could be illuminated by changing grassanimscale and making the clouds move faster (I should add a cloudlayer to Kelgar). Something like SpeedTree would be really cool.

Hirato wrote:and the "rocks" you mentioned can be simulated with obstacle entities.


I was unable to find any documentation about the obstacle entities.

Hirato wrote:As for lighting: Yours vs Mine - which is better and why, discuss!
kdekadenz' https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23891252/screenshot_68755.jpg
Mine https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23891252/screenshot_452054.jpg

If you want to stick with your lighting, the least you can do is to use fogdomes to make the sky foggy to justify it.


I do prefer my lightening.
You lightening is too bright (mine is a bit dark, but this fits to the general concept). The shadows are too long in my opinion.
Shouldn't be too hard to make a foggy skydome using perlin noise.
Kelgar is an advanced RPG beeing developed in Sandbox

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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby Runescapedj » June 2nd, 2012, 5:12 pm

kddekadenz wrote:
Runescapedj wrote:You can always save the map under different names and only change the weather (so 1 with rain, 1 with sun, 1 with night, etc), but that might give problems with scripts and such, however itd be good to be able to change a few things in the main world (like blowing stuff up, building stuff, a passage full of rocks that gets cleared over time)


Your solution of adding weather is bad, because of the loading times and more important: Example: You kill a person in the sunny world, then it gets rainy and the person is alive again!


I dont know if its possible, since I cannot code nor know much about the coding of PAS, but cant you just make a overhauling code thats active for multiple maps (like for all weather conditions.
I mean: you have to get to different maps like the haunted mine too whilst the game has to remember the quests and how far you are in them and which persons you killed

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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby chocolatepie33 » June 3rd, 2012, 2:18 pm

Hirato wrote:We plan to integrate tesseract into our codebase for 3.0.0/2.9.0, which should make dynamic lighting and and shading a reality.
The actual "rain", "snow" or "lightning" and other misc things of whether are another matter which I've not yet decided to tackle.

@chocolatepie Changing the map based on the weather and time of day is a logistics nightmare - best to do this only when the world changes in a permanent way. and the "rocks" you mentioned can be simulated with obstacle entities.

As for lighting: Yours vs Mine - which is better and why, discuss!
kdekadenz' https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23891252/screenshot_68755.jpg
Mine https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23891252/screenshot_452054.jpg


Tesseract? Aw man. I got the source, compiled it, and tried that once. Got a framebuffer support error - computer is apparently too old to run it. Hmmm...

The map changing would be a problem, maybe you could somehow add trigger support to particles in a way similar to platforms and elevator entities, using tags and coding for activation? Or is that not possible? Also, when did I mention rocks? The lake?

In the lighting competition, I'm voting for Hirato, as his is much more vibrant and lifelike. Kdd's kind of seems like there's no lighting at all when the two are compared side by side.

kddekadenz wrote:Your solution of adding weather is bad, because of the loading times and more important: Example: You kill a person in the sunny world, then it gets rainy and the person is alive again!

Building stuff would be very cool and I already tought about adding this, but currently there are other priorities (quests and landscape).

Another idea I had was summoning, but I do not know how to create the critter entity using a spell.


could killing be covered by variables.cfg? As for summoning - if the critter were to run around and such realistically, then you would need waypoints virtually anywhere and everywhere on the map that you can access and use the spell. maybe there's also some kind of "spawn_critter" action that can be used in spells/items?
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby Hirato » June 3rd, 2012, 8:06 pm

chocolatepie33 wrote:Also, when did I mention rocks? The lake?


oh dear, did I really make that mistake?
:oops:

@chocolatepie Changing the map based on the weather and time of day is a logistics nightmare - best to do this only when the world changes in a permanent way. And some obstacles, like rocks for example can be simulated with obstacle entities.


Fixed ^^

EDIT: also about Tesseract, If we integrate that for 2.9.0, We will leave 2.8.0 easily accessible on the main site for people with old systems
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