[RPG] Kelgar [with download]

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chocolatepie33
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby chocolatepie33 » May 19th, 2012, 7:45 pm

here's "Das Review" (and yes, I'm in the midst of learning German at school) for the latest version, it's not much different than the one from here: http://forum.sandboxgamemaker.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3497&#p31059

cons:

-Very, very slow still (~16 fps with low/no settings)
-too many pickups, I got confused on the minimap (the green and yellow arrows always confuse me, I can never remember which one is a pickup and which one's npcs, or if there's a different system)
-grammar/spelling stuff every now and then

pros:

-beautiful world (the church is very cool)
-somewhat interesting plot (I still have that "demo" kind of feel)
-old guy sort of breaks the fourth wall, was very cool. BTW: have you ever heard of the iOS game "Fara"? It's very similar in the beginning, as the main character wakes up on a beach, and is found by an old dude who mentions the whole amnesia thing.
-cool customization

suggestions:

-possibly split up the one big map into multiple smaller maps to help fix fps, I'm not an RPG expert, so tell me if this isn't possible:
-beginning map (Arus)
-roadmap (snakes' fort)
-Ridaz outskirts (mud guy, lake, etc)
-Ridaz
-Ridaz outskirts revisited? (old man's house)
-Return to Ridaz
-like mentioned, possibly remove overly excessive pickups
-go through and revise your dialogue and menus, I think you might've misspelled "Brannen" once, at the old man's place
-maybe you could have a large map with notes on it accessible through a menu? (I know that's possible in fps with guiimage, but I don't know about RPG).

other notes:

-I accidentally shot a shopkeeper with an arrow after I decided to stab Brannen, and now I had two guys trying to kill me. :lol:
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby Hirato » May 19th, 2012, 10:45 pm

You can always add mdlellipsecollide 1 to the pickups models - physics with cylinders as opposed to cubes are a lot cheaper.
On my netbook with the "testing hall" for example, that is the difference between 7 and 40 FPS with those 7 boxes.
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kddekadenz
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby kddekadenz » May 20th, 2012, 9:41 am

@chocolatepie33: Thanks for reviewing it again :)

@Hirato: Thank you for the info.
I did noticed that a lot of models will decrease FPS, too. I therefore cannot make a good forest (trees have to be mapmodels, tough).
Kelgar is an advanced RPG beeing developed in Sandbox

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Runescapedj
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby Runescapedj » May 20th, 2012, 2:08 pm

chocolatepie33 wrote:BTW: have you ever heard of the iOS game "Fara"? It's very similar in the beginning, as the main character wakes up on a beach, and is found by an old dude who mentions the whole amnesia thing.

Reminded me of gothic 2 ;)

And kdd, you should really add kid_matthew to the project, he's a great mapper ;)

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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby kddekadenz » May 21st, 2012, 10:38 am

Runescapedj wrote:
chocolatepie33 wrote:BTW: have you ever heard of the iOS game "Fara"? It's very similar in the beginning, as the main character wakes up on a beach, and is found by an old dude who mentions the whole amnesia thing.

Reminded me of gothic 2 ;)

And kdd, you should really add kid_matthew to the project, he's a great mapper ;)


I did it before you suggested me to do it ;)
I do not know Fara, because I boycott Apple.
Kelgar is an advanced RPG beeing developed in Sandbox

donnelly517
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby donnelly517 » May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm

Downloading it now. I liked the compo you realeased earlier so this should be great!
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby Hirato » June 1st, 2012, 2:30 am

I saw you uploaded 0.4 on the indiedb page...


So let's see how you've improved...
I start up a new game and the output from the console is as follows...

Code: Select all

ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
ERROR: r_get_amount; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
Nothing to loot
data/rpg/games/default/scripts/36.cfg:1: unexpected "]"
data/rpg/games/default/scripts/36.cfg:1: unexpected "]"
unknown command: body[
unknown command: Theres
unknown command: it
unknown command: I
unknown command: I
unknown command: the
unknown command: Hi
unknown command: Umm.the
unknown command: in
unknown command: Awww
unknown command: it
unknown command: 
                r_response "Close" -1

unknown command: kdd/fireball_explode
ERROR: r_sound; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown command: r_item_use
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
unknown command: kdd/fireball_explode
ERROR: r_sound; invalid reference "self" or of incompatible type
unknown alias lookup: STATUS_NONE
read map packages/base/rpg/Kelgar-main.ogz (0.2 seconds)
could not find animation punch|shoot
could not find animation punch|shoot
could not find animation punch|shoot
could not find animation punch|shoot
could not find animation punch|shoot
successfully loaded 1544 waypoints
If the traders have not enough money, they will not buy sth. from you.
Use WASD to move
TAB to open your inventory
E to interact (talk,loot..)
and your mouse to attack


So not only have to failed to address any of my criticism from the competition, and what I told you to address in 0.3.
You have somehow managed to make it even worse!

What the heck! Why aren't you addressing what I, of all people, are telling you to!?
Why are you ignoring the warnings and errors that are being thrown!? There's a reason the game does this, it's so you can fix it!
And frankly I'm getting rather fed up by the fact that you still haven't done anything to that blasted loot script! - I even told you how to change it months ago if you have to insist on using it!


So let's at least see what this STATUS_NONE stuff is abo--

Code: Select all

% rgrep STATUS_ data/
[...]
data/rpg/games/default/items/27.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.15 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/6.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE -0.6 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/30.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.2  1
data/rpg/games/default/items/31.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.01 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/11.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.8 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/1.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE 0.05 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/22.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE -0.4 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/8.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.15  1
data/rpg/games/default/items/10.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.4 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/0.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE -0.05 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/25.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.2 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/7.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.25 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/26.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.25  1
data/rpg/games/default/items/4.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 2 $STATUS_NONE -0.05 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/5.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE 1.0 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/14.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE -0.1 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/23.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE -0.05 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/29.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH -0.1 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/3.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE -0.2 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/20.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE -0.12 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/21.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE -0.05 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/15.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.4 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/19.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE -0.08 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/9.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.2 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/2.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_NONE -0.025 1
data/rpg/games/default/items/28.cfg:r_item_use_new_status 1 $STATUS_HEALTH 0.05 1
[...]


What in the world...!

It seems you have some serious reading to do on how status effects and item definitions interact...
Might I suggest the official tutorial?
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby kddekadenz » June 1st, 2012, 10:37 am

Hirato wrote:So not only have to failed to address any of my criticism from the competition, and what I told you to address in 0.3.
You have somehow managed to make it even worse!


I quote from your competition criticism.

I'm rather impressed on the atmosphere and combat aspects, but I find the quests to be somewhat lacking.
They do not offer multiple resolutions or influence any NPCs as advertised.


They are work in progress. Michiel (RuneScapeDJ) currently works on a Haunted Mine map, but it isn't finished yet. Matthew will start working soon on a abbey.
The quests do have multiple solutions in my opinion, but it have to be improved.

First there are the fireplaces and mudbanks, why did you spawn critters atop them? If you want to do this you should be using trigger entities (they have a flag for making themselves invisible you know). Likewise they and the player should have models assigned to them.


This is fixed, but I decided to use no models and map geometry instead for those.

Looting is the another thing that confuses me a bit, but I suppose it is somewhat understandable as I haven't made anything to prevent you from looting certain objects.


I think that you implemented this in 2.8, so I didn't do anything about it.
I do not know how to get the value, name and description of a item.

The thing that confuses me most is the way you handled shopping. This could've been done in a much more generic way, did you really need to make a dialogue tree for every item you could buy and sell?
That is incredibly excessive!


You already have implemented this know, so I did not write a extra script.


Plus the few sounds that are there work pretty well too for the most part. Though it's a bit jarring to have one of the attack sounds play when I'm using the weak healing glyph.


I did not understand how to assign this to a specific weapon/spell. Most of the sounds are already finished, but I failed at implementing.

My biggest criticism with the new art would be the lack of dead/dying animations or ragdolls.


We still have no 3D artist..

What the heck! Why aren't you addressing what I, of all people, are telling you to!?
Why are you ignoring the warnings and errors that are being thrown!? There's a reason the game does this, it's so you can fix it!
And frankly I'm getting rather fed up by the fact that you still haven't done anything to that blasted loot script! - I even told you how to change it months ago if you have to insist on using it!


I do understand why you was upset, but I hope you understand why the mentioned bugs are not fixed yet.

So let's at least see what this STATUS_NONE stuff is abo--
[...]
What in the world...!


That truly is a fail. Of course it has to be SKILL_NONE :oops:


I do appreciate your criticism, please keep it up.
Kelgar is an advanced RPG beeing developed in Sandbox

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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby Hirato » June 1st, 2012, 12:08 pm

I shall also quote myself from then..

Hirato wrote:The waypoints aren't set up to allow the NPCs to defeat the player in melee

First there are the fireplaces and mudbanks, why did you spawn critters atop them? If you want to do this you should be using trigger entities (they have a flag for making themselves invisible you know). Likewise they and the player should have models assigned to them.

Looting is the another thing that confuses me a bit, but I suppose it is somewhat understandable as I haven't made anything to prevent you from looting certain objects.
Still, surely you could've use a list of items to check for and modified the generic NPC loot script for this, rather than creating script #22 and calling it.
This is also the wrong approach to including them, in the future place them elsewhere, eg includes/lootscript.cfg and use 'include' to include them, eg 'include includes/lootscript'
Also said script also prints that there aren't any items to loot unless the container had a weak healing glyph.


The first map is lit rather poorly [...]. Give some thought to using the skylight and sunlight variables in the future.

Plus the few sounds that are there work pretty well too for the most part. Though it's a bit jarring to have one of the attack sounds play when I'm using the weak healing glyph.

The thing that confuses me most is the way you handled shopping. This could've been done in a much more generic way, did you really need to make a dialogue tree for every item you could buy and sell?
That is incredibly excessive!

The ancestor quest also looks a bit buggy. There seem to be a lot of weirdly placed state changes.


I've quoted selectively and bolded or coloured to emphasize things
I understand there's no point to addressing some of them... so let's break it down a bit...

The waypoints aren't set up to allow the NPCs to defeat the player in melee.

The thing that confuses me most is the way you handled shopping. This could've been done in a much more generic way, did you really need to make a dialogue tree for every item you could buy and sell?
That is incredibly excessive!

Looting is the another thing that confuses me a bit, but I suppose it is somewhat understandable as I haven't made anything to prevent you from looting certain objects.
Still, surely you could've use a list of items to check for and modified the generic NPC loot script for this, rather than creating script #22 and calling it.

There isn't really any point to addressing this stuff, to start out with - as future revisions of the RPG should more or less take care of the looting and trading side of things... As you've noted.
And waypoints are of course best saved until the end when the map is done and you seem to be working on it.. however slowly.


First there are the fireplaces and mudbanks, why did you spawn critters atop them? If you want to do this you should be using trigger entities (they have a flag for making themselves invisible you know). Likewise they and the player should have models assigned to them.

If you go into third person, you'll see the player's model is just empty.
While it's no longer "" it is now "rc" - but this model doesn't exist which means the side effects can still be undesirable.
You really have no excuse for not adding something like "r_char_mdl uh/chars/man/oldman01" into player.cfg to fix this issue

Looting is the another thing that confuses me a bit, but I suppose it is somewhat understandable as I haven't made anything to prevent you from looting certain objects.
Still, surely you could've use a list of items to check for and modified the generic NPC loot script for this, rather than creating script #22 and calling it.
This is also the wrong approach to including them, in the future place them elsewhere, eg includes/lootscript.cfg and use 'include' to include them, eg 'include includes/lootscript'
Also said script also prints that there aren't any items to loot unless the container had a weak healing glyph.

The main thing I'm trying to highlight here is that this script IS INSIDE data/rpg/games/mygame/scripts/ when it isn't configuring a script slot at all - it is executing stuff which depends on having a very specific state of the world and reference table and this is very likely the source of freezes and other weirdness some of your players have reported!
I'm also trying to point out you're including the file wrong, you should be using include includes/loot not exec data/rpg/games/default/includes/loot.cfg - there's a huge difference here! the former will work no matter what you call your game!
But really, It's been 5 months, you have no excuse for not moving this script to say, includes/loot.cfg and replacing every invocation of "exec data/rpg/games/default/scripts/22.cfg" with "include includes/loot.cfg"

The first map is lit rather poorly [...]. Give some thought to using the skylight and sunlight variables in the future.

I'll admit you've improved the lighting somewhat. But you can still do much better.
The current lighting is fine... for overcast weather... but this is obviously not the case, so case some shadows, illuminate the place.
It's all about setting the ambiance properly.

Plus the few sounds that are there work pretty well too for the most part. Though it's a bit jarring to have one of the attack sounds play when I'm using the weak healing glyph.

Is there a reason using the healing spell still sounds as though someone is hitting me over the head with a club?
This can in actual fact be applied to all "edible" items now too!

The ancestor quest also looks a bit buggy. There seem to be a lot of weirdly placed state changes.

I don't think you have an excuse for this one either.
I don't care if it's a work in progress, you could've at least consolidated code like the following so it didn't look nearly as silly as it is.

Code: Select all

r_script_say "No money, no reward." [ //8
   r_response "You are such an :censored:" -1
   r_global_set $ancestor_search 4
   r_response "One day, you :censored: will wake up with a dagger in your tummy." -1
   r_global_set $ancestor_search 4
   r_response "Farewell." -1"
   r_global_set $ancestor_search 3
]

Just look at it! You're changing the state of the quest 3 times while just generating the responses!
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Re: [RPG] Kelgar [with download]

Postby Mike » June 1st, 2012, 1:24 pm

Sounds like he drew some of the inspiration for his dialogue from you Hirato :) hehe. And it isn't a WIP so you don't need to go too bonkers on the poor guy!! Great tips for you though KDD, and keep up the good work!!
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