DEVELOPMENT POLL: Names or Indices?

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Poll ended at February 16th, 2013, 1:05 am

3
43%
4
57%
 
Total votes: 7

Hirato
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DEVELOPMENT POLL: Names or Indices?

Postby Hirato » February 9th, 2013, 1:05 am

This is not a url, clicking it is pointless

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kddekadenz
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Re: DEVELOPMENT POLL: Names or Indices?

Postby kddekadenz » February 9th, 2013, 2:46 pm

Hm, my mail doesn't meant to be whiny.

Could you explain the reasons of the negative sides?
I have no plan of the inside of the engine, to be honest.

Why shouldn't it be backwards compatible? Numbers can be loaded as strings, too, can't they?

Also, I don't think the decrease in performance would be big.
is an advanced RPG beeing developed in Sandbox

Hirato
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Re: DEVELOPMENT POLL: Names or Indices?

Postby Hirato » February 9th, 2013, 9:42 pm

Performance will have a rather minimal effect, searching for strings rather than accessing a number directly is just more costly.
And memory usage will increase by 64 bytes for each entity on the map (for 10K entities, that's ~600 KB), and also a bit for all the entities themselves as they'd now reference the scripts by names. It's relatively minor and can be ignored for modern systems.

But backwards compatibility, there's no information available in the map, so we cannot even import the second attribute and write it to the name string.
The only thing the map stores is the map's version and format, with no details available about the game itself (except for identifying which game it is).
Last edited by Hirato on February 17th, 2013, 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: 10000 * 64 != 6400000
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java.x.beast
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Re: DEVELOPMENT POLL: Names or Indices?

Postby java.x.beast » February 9th, 2013, 11:43 pm

A wild java.x.beast appears! I have returned to my beloved forum! Anyways, here's my two cents on the subject.

I have to agree with Hirato on this one. While it may be easier to use strings for names, indices would be far better because of memory. In the time I've been gone, I've studied a lot about computers and programming and how the two are interlocked. I've experimented with different programming languages and different software for making games and have come upon the conclusion that performance and memory is a HUGE part of a game/software. If your game is small and takes up 500MB of RAM, you're obviously doing something wrong. Optimization is key to a good game.

I remember RPG Mode back when it was still in the developmental stage(early,early developmental stage), and it used strings for storing entities. I loved this and thought that it was cool and was quite disappointed when it was changed to indices. However, I now understand that this was a great choice because after checking the RAM, I was using 1MB less than I previously was. You might not think this to be big, but trust me, it will count in the future when you make a larger game.

Smart choice, Hirato. ;)

-Zaddis

P.S. : What version of PAS are we on right now?

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kddekadenz
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Re: DEVELOPMENT POLL: Names or Indices?

Postby kddekadenz » February 10th, 2013, 9:17 am

Hehe, ask a coder what's most important and he will say performance.
What do you want with an engine which lacks features, but has therefore a maximized performance?
The decrease in performance is minimal, but the increase in visibilty and modabilty is big.

For me it currently is fine that there is no backward-compatibility. Kelgar is being remade, so it's the perfect time.
For other it may suck. I don't know of any other big projects, though.
is an advanced RPG beeing developed in Sandbox

java.x.beast
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Re: DEVELOPMENT POLL: Names or Indices?

Postby java.x.beast » February 11th, 2013, 6:36 am

First off, you're right. A programmer will tell you performance is very important.

Secondly, what features will be missing? From what I understand, I'm assuming you mean modability. Since the general population of PAS users will not be looking to make moddable games, I think it's safe to go towards the interest of the majority. You could easily edit the source code to utilize strings instead of indices, if modability is that important to your game.

Third, backwards-compatibility is very important whether it's a tiny or huge project. No user will want to be stuck between choosing to completely restart their project or miss out on new features.

Finally, performance isn't the issue here, it's the memory. Performance isn't affected that much. Memory, as Hirato said, will increase by 64 bytes per entity. As aforementioned, this will discourage users from playing your game because it could very well take up a giant part of their RAM (or wherever Hirato's saving it to).

-Zaddis

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kddekadenz
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Re: DEVELOPMENT POLL: Names or Indices?

Postby kddekadenz » February 11th, 2013, 11:35 am

is an advanced RPG beeing developed in Sandbox

Hirato
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Re: DEVELOPMENT POLL: Names or Indices?

Postby Hirato » February 11th, 2013, 7:54 pm

This is not a url, clicking it is pointless

java.x.beast
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Re: DEVELOPMENT POLL: Names or Indices?

Postby java.x.beast » February 11th, 2013, 8:38 pm


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kddekadenz
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Re: DEVELOPMENT POLL: Names or Indices?

Postby kddekadenz » February 12th, 2013, 1:51 am

is an advanced RPG beeing developed in Sandbox


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