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MOVIEMAKE
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delete this

Postby MOVIEMAKE » November 30th, 2011, 5:28 pm

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Last edited by MOVIEMAKE on December 1st, 2011, 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tyche
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Re: idea for sandbox

Postby tyche » November 30th, 2011, 7:55 pm

MOVIEMAKE,

I had to think long and hard before I took the action I did. My first reaction was to delete your posts and ban you from the forums. That may still happen if I ever see the type of attitude and actions you've shown today.

1.) You posted the same post multiple times. Now, it's just possible that your browser "stuttered", or that you didn't realize that the post had actually been posted. Result, I trashed the "extras". This time.

2.) You are a VERY new member, yet immediately decide that you can tell the programmers and other contributors what they should be doing with Sandbox. That is a very inappropriate attitude to take. This is not commercial software backed by a lot of money. Rather, it is a community project staffed by volunteers on an ever-fluctuating basis. If you have something to contribute we would be interested in hearing from you. If you intend to give us orders - LEAVE. We are quite capable of deciding for ourselves what direction Sandbox should go in, and what priorities we should follow. We don't need an outsider telling us what to do.

So, now you have a choice. You can decide to become a community member in reality, or you can leave, or you can be banned.

Your choice.

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Re: idea for sandbox

Postby chocolatepie33 » November 30th, 2011, 8:15 pm

@Tyche:

1) Good work.
2) You say you banned him, but then you say he can be banned... Changing your mind mid-post?

@MOVIEMAKE: Have you even USED this software at all?
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Re: idea for sandbox

Postby tyche » November 30th, 2011, 9:27 pm

chocolatepie33 wrote:You say you banned him, but then you say he can be banned... Changing your mind mid-post?


I said I COULD have banned him. I got the feeling from the post that he was rather young and unsophisticated in the ways of forums and community driven software. So I cut him a break with a serious warning. I'll admit that it took some serious thinking and cooling down to get to that point (despite how strongly worded the warning seemed, my initial reaction was MUCH stronger).

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Re: idea for sandbox

Postby Tony » December 1st, 2011, 7:36 am

Still, a little harsh. Especially directed at a kid.

Worse is posted regularly by some of the regulars, in my humble observation.

A community cannot grow without new people joining in; "outsiders" are new recruits, so to say. As you mention, the active contributors are always in flux, you organically lose "members" due to real life as well as community issues. In other words, growth is necessary in order to stay alive, as it needs to make up for loss. And even at that, growth balance for loss is not truly growth.

I'd wager that at least some of the members here began as new kids, full of ideas and wanting to contribute, and maybe a little rambunctious or not so forum-savvy. I am not defending the kid's post, nor condemning the moderator action, merely observing what could have been a better handled situation on all counts.

As for "double-posting", which seems to be some sort of crime here, the forum software is not perfect, and it does act a little goofy sometimes. Simply delete the repeated message, no big deal. As for making more than one post, this is the norm in most communities or list-servs. If you change subjects, or intend a different segment of the audience, you change the subject line and create a new post. The thing about double-posting here is unique to this forum, anywhere else, they may suggest that you break your post down by subject.

Like this, should be a new post:

Hey Tyche,
I have been really enjoying some of the textures that you have contributed to the project. While not bumpmapped in 3D, some of these are still really nice to work with. Hey, sometimes flat is good, and these textures are beautiful man, nice work, good stuff. The Wood texture, that dark one, is especially useful, as are some of the others.

But because the in-house policy is to never double-post... I crammed it in here with the rest of my rambling. I've been meaning to say something about those textures, those are nice additions to the box-stock.

While we're on the subject of image contribution, and because I don't dare start a new thread z o m g ....
I have more item-icons to share, but I'm afraid to post them. Apparently the cloud-server suggested as the best solution by the forum instructions has been deemed in secret to be unacceptable. I am not searching all over the web and then posting what may-or-may-not be an acceptable cloud.

Mysterious rules that contradict published policy are hard to follow. I suppose if I were to run IRC chat all the time, I'd be more in the in-crowd and know all of these things... but that's not going to happen. And really, who still uses IRC anyway? Really? I have a Ventrilo Server that will support 100 users, in VoIP surround-sound... toss on some headphones and chat in Voice while your fingers still mash keys and get work done. That sounds more productive doesn't it?

I suppose the moral to this story is this: If you want to grow the community, and truly be open and welcoming to new folks, including kids, things could be a little less cliquish around here. Patience is a virtue, so they say. As is tolerance. Simply ignoring the post and letting it fade off into oblivion may have been a more prudent approach.

As for the rest of the community, if this is meant to be an in-house project, exclusive of outsiders, then stop advertising and promote new members by invitation only.

The public-relations rhetoric for this project's product is targeting schools and educators of primary and secondary education. Yet, I see absolutely no educators posting, or examples of educational programs using the software. If the intent is truly as the rhetoric suggest, then this project needs cleaned up and put on track towards realizing that goal. By that I mean, packaged with adequate documentation into a usable and attractive package that busy educators can easily incorporate into a curriculum.

Maybe I am missing a huge chunk of data in my assessment, such as some educator-specific website or resource, or something. Anyway...

There's my two-and-a-half cent's worth for the day. Take it for what it's worth, and please know that my intentions are good.

Comments are welcome, and mostly, Have a Great Day :D
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MOVIEMAKE
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Re: idea for sandbox

Postby MOVIEMAKE » December 1st, 2011, 8:35 am

I am so very sorry. I shouldn't have posted this early. I'll delete the post right away.

Yes I'm new to this engine. I just spent 4 hours on it. I really love the engine.

I was going to make one of my games in another engine but decided i liked this one better.

me talking like this will never happen again.

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Re: idea for sandbox

Postby arcones » December 1st, 2011, 11:11 am

Please read all of this with the knowledge that I did not see the original post (so I won't talk about it).

Tony wrote:I'd wager that at least some of the members here began as new kids, full of ideas and wanting to contribute, and maybe a little rambunctious or not so forum-savvy. I am not defending the kid's post, nor condemning the moderator action, merely observing what could have been a better handled situation on all counts.
That was me in a nutshell (the first part lol). On the other hand, I didn't demand help or information, I simply asked questions wherever I could. Sometimes I just didn't get answers, and other times I did. And once I knew more about the engine, I contributed (textures mostly), along with some ideas. Generally I bite off more than I can chew, but for me, that's fine. I love the creative process and really want to get the juices flowing :) I try to make it my job to answer as many questions that come on here as possible. Occasionally I just don't have the time to answer with a complete response, so I try to withhold from posting a half-finished answer. I would say that the majority of members who have really wished to help this project, started out by asking questions. After all, if you're the newbie in the forum, you can't expect to know everything.


Tony wrote:While we're on the subject of image contribution, and because I don't dare start a new thread z o m g ....
I have more item-icons to share, but I'm afraid to post them. Apparently the cloud-server suggested as the best solution by the forum instructions has been deemed in secret to be unacceptable. I am not searching all over the web and then posting what may-or-may-not be an acceptable cloud.
The standard option we pretty much all use is Sendspace. Really easy and quick to use. If I didn't mention that the first, I'm really sorry ;)

Tony wrote:Mysterious rules that contradict published policy are hard to follow. I suppose if I were to run IRC chat all the time, I'd be more in the in-crowd and know all of these things... but that's not going to happen. And really, who still uses IRC anyway? Really? I have a Ventrilo Server that will support 100 users, in VoIP surround-sound... toss on some headphones and chat in Voice while your fingers still mash keys and get work done. That sounds more productive doesn't it?
Those of us who don't use/have Ventrilo :P In all honesty, there aren't a lot of mysterious rules around here, it's mainly common sense (for instance, do not use all caps as that can just get annoying sometimes). Maybe if more of the new members actually took a good look at the forum rules it would help. I continually check them to make sure I'm following them. (It's like that saying: "I have read and I agree to the Terms is the biggest lie ever" :P (However, it is unfortunately true)).

php#rule1b - Even if members simply understood the General Rules (which aren't that many) there would be a greater understanding of how the moderator's will act if necessary.

Tony wrote:I suppose the moral to this story is this: If you want to grow the community, and truly be open and welcoming to new folks, including kids, things could be a little less cliquish around here. Patience is a virtue, so they say. As is tolerance. Simply ignoring the post and letting it fade off into oblivion may have been a more prudent approach.
That is definitely an option (a good one too I think). However, if the post was inflammatory in any way, even the slightest bit, then its best not to allow posts like that to spread around the forum. Sure the member may learn after a while, but maybe not. That sort of attitude you do not want in your community. If a new member saw something like that being posted consistently, they may not want to stay.

And trust me, we have had issues like that which needed to be dealt with. Forgive us if we are trying to avoid another forum incident, especially since the last one took a long time to clear up.

Tony wrote:The public-relations rhetoric for this project's product is targeting schools and educators of primary and secondary education. Yet, I see absolutely no educators posting, or examples of educational programs using the software. If the intent is truly as the rhetoric suggest, then this project needs cleaned up and put on track towards realizing that goal. By that I mean, packaged with adequate documentation into a usable and attractive package that busy educators can easily incorporate into a curriculum.

Maybe I am missing a huge chunk of data in my assessment, such as some educator-specific website or resource, or something. Anyway...
Maybe. Have you checked out this forum yet? I don't know if its a comprehensive list of the schools that have used Sandbox, but its a start. I know every time I do a project for school I clearly state that in my forum post.

Well, that's my Monopoly money contribution :P (And I believe you did ask for comments Tony ;D )
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Re: delete this

Postby tyche » December 1st, 2011, 1:06 pm

MOVIEMAKE,

I've seen your private message to me, your apology (which I accept), your attempts to rectify the situation, and your honest interest in Sandbox. These are all very good, very positive indications that you want to be a member of the community.

I know my method was a bit harsh. But perhaps some background will help you understand why I was. I've seen, and to a degree been involved in, some rather dramatic situations both here in the forums and in the IRC channel (I'm also a channel OP). I've seen people go way out of line, sometimes without any warning, and cause so much dissension in both the forums and the channel that we lost good, contributing members. Most of my job here in the forums is to remove spam and/or inappropriate posts or links. However, I also try to encourage people where I can, and even provide such help as I can.

Something to think about: I CAN be removed. I know it. I didn't seek this job, but after some training I was turned loose to use my judgment to the best of my ability. If I mess up too much I WILL be removed. If you honestly feel that I was way out of line, talk to calimer (in IRC). My judgment, when I saw your initial post, was that either it was spam or a troublemaker, or that it was an unintentional attempt to join in without really understanding where Sandbox was and where it was heading (and what resources we had to get there). I'm VERY glad that I gave you a choice, and that you demonstrated that you were a big enough person to accept that choice.

Welcome to Platinum Arts Sandbox. Join in. Ask questions. Contribute. We've got people in here that have a LOT of knowledge about what can be done with Sandbox, and are pretty good about knowing how to teach others. Above all, have fun.

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Re: idea for sandbox

Postby Tony » December 1st, 2011, 6:09 pm

arcones wrote:
Have you checked out this forum yet?


Aye, that I did. Didn't seem like all that much going on to me, and why I said what I said.

arcones wrote:
Those of us who don't use/have Ventrilo


Ventrilo Client is a free download, no cost whatsoever. It has a very small footprint, no advertisements, no nothing, just a VoIP client.
I have a server that supports 100 users, right now. Live and in-use.

http://www.ventrilo.com/download.php

Of course, if your only operating system is Linux, I suppose you're out of luck. Linux will serve up the software, but there is no client in Linux.
If you are in school, university, or in business, you probably have Windows or Mac OS. So it really shouldn't be a problem.
Anyway, welcome to the 21st century. Gamers use VoIP technology to communicate, pretty standard stuff man.

I do remember using IRC though, back in the 90's.
I can't imagine trying to run a 25-Player Raid in World of Warcraft with it though. Which is what I use Ventrilo for mostly. I am the founder and guild leader of a raiding guild in WoW. We have 750 members right now. I usually keep it cut down to around 600. The higher numbers are nice though, when we go to raid an opposing faction's cities =)

Nice chatting with you, have a great day,
- Tony
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Re: delete this

Postby arcones » December 1st, 2011, 7:23 pm

Tony wrote:Ventrilo Client is a free download, no cost whatsoever. It has a very small footprint, no advertisements, no nothing, just a VoIP client.
I have a server that supports 100 users, right now. Live and in-use.

http://www.ventrilo.com/download.php

Nice chatting with you, have a great day,
- Tony


I don't have Ventrilo, but I do have Teamspeak. There just is no need for me to use it, even though I do game. There's almost no reason if you're playing CoD or most other shooters unless you're playing with someone you know (which I don't all that often). I agree though, I'd use Teamspeak (or Ventrilo) for gaming, but if I'm not gaming, then I'm fine with the IRC (although I use Steam for a lot of chatting as well).

And you too ;D
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